Who copied who?
Popular Linux desktop application Avant Window Navigator received a large amount of flak for using the same depth effect as Apple’s upcoming release of OS X. But things aren’t always what they seem, and the example proves two important truths about the technology industry.
Quoting one Digg user:
“Wow Leopard…. I mean Linux looks good…
Way to come up with original ideas ”
We think Avant (at top) was probably inspired by Leopard (in the middle), but Apple’s engineers would have likely looked at other desktops themselves. Including Sun’s Project Looking Glass, an experimental interface which has been around for years. Check the uncropped version of the screenshot below:
That’s one very old Mozilla. The image is from a Sun Presentation in 2003. While we’re at it, you might be interested in something else from Looking Glass at the time - the ability to play music by sorting through the album artwork covers of your CDs (warning: fast forward the video to 5:05, or you might see a man in a ponytail) - what Jonathan Del Strother later developed and sold to Apple as Cover Flow.
Is Apple ripping off Sun? No.
There’s two lessons here:
1. Good engineers try competing products, and get inspired by them. The Unix sudo command becomes Red Hat and Apple’s graphical equivalent, which turns into Vista’s famous Cancel/Allow dialogs (which don’t need the password typed at all). Each improves in a small way on what went before.
2. Parallel thinking happens. Good ideas are often obvious to engineers faced with the same problems.
- Public key cryptography - the basis of online commerce - was created twice. First by British Engineer Clifford Cocks in 1973 and then four years later at MIT, by engineers unaware of Cocks’ classified work.
- Being able to moderate articles was a frequent user request on Slashdot.org since the late 90s. Digg improved on Slashdot by finally catering to that suggestion, but the idea wasn’t new.
- Dilbert creator Scott Adams (whose a pretty sharp guy) created a calendaring service that used your appointments to provide related advertising - and then found out someone at his gym had already done so.
I’ve personally thought of great ideas for online security and discussed it with a management consultant friend, who then told me he had a friend at Deloitte who’d been working on the same thing.
If you’re an engineer working on a 3D desktop, and there’s a large flat object on the bottom of the screen, a logical conclusion would be to have some depth of field.
If the problem is sorting through music, and you want something more visual than text, it would also be reasonable to use album artwork for that purpose.
Though we hope Cover Flow isn’t patented.
Update:
- That’s an ancient Mozilla using the Netscape 4 theme, not Netscape 4.
- Sun desktop shown is Project Looking Glass, not JDS.
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July 19th, 2007 21:04
[…] Link to Article linux Who copied who? » Posted at Venturecake on Thursday, July 19, 2007 Who […]
July 20th, 2007 08:14
One would often see the same in the auto industry. How many auto manufactures tackled improvements in designs that ended up being similar solutions.
July 20th, 2007 08:16
Clifford Clocks? Don’t you mean Clifford Cocks? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Cocks
Ed:I do! Fixed.
July 20th, 2007 08:19
Excellent article outlining what most anthropologists learn early on; it is a pity compsci people don’t learn from other fields!
July 20th, 2007 10:32
That’s not Netscape 4, that’s an early Mozilla build. Look at the infamous purple M in the corner.
July 20th, 2007 10:35
This doesn’t really add to or remove anything from your point, but…
Apple didn’t make Cover Flow.
It was originally a third party add-on for the Mac version of iTunes. Apple bought it up and dropped it into the iTunes UI. It’s original incarnation was kind of useless because it was only full screen and it ran seperate from iTunes.
Ed:The article already mentions that Apple purchased Cover Flow.
July 20th, 2007 11:11
That’s not Netscape 4, it’s Mozilla Seamonkey (Formerly just ‘Mozilla’) with its Classic theme. It’s still being developed and still looks pretty much like that, though they’ve changed the animated loading graphic.
July 20th, 2007 11:46
Many people seem to copy each other’s designs…crazy stuff
July 20th, 2007 11:49
Actually, the experimental 3D based desktop is called Project Looking Glass.
https://lg3d.dev.java.net/
JDS is the desktop environment delivered with Solaris, which is a Sun branded version of Gnome plus other applications ( such as various mozilla apps, along with the full StarOffice Suite ) bundled together.
http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/jds/
July 20th, 2007 11:53
I think the issue at hand is that linux UI implementations tend to copy the visual style of windows and osx within months of any annouced UI changes. Coming to the perspective view isn’t a new idea. However only having the confidence to implement it because another company (with a track record of good design) has done so is a case of follow-the-leader. (There is also an issue with bringing nothing new to the table - many linux UI copies usually reproduce a look verbatim. Sadly when any change is introduced it’s usually not a refinement, but often just a lazy implementation.) This is what inspires people to write sarcastic comments in their blogs. From a young age we’re taught that copying from others is only disrespectful to oneself.
Ed:Well put.
July 20th, 2007 14:11
Linux, Mac, Windows, Sun they all copy stuff from each other and have been doing so since the beginning of time. What i don’t like is when one organization comes out with an idea “Sun” and then another organization copy’s that organization idea “Mac copy’s Sun” and then latter down the line an open source developer copy’s the same idea “Kde developer builds mac style dock for karamba” and the next thing you know “Mac” starts threatening to sue people for an idea that they have no right to. Windows is also know for this. They can’t compete so they sue.
This is why patents are wrong because to assume that just because you think up an idea doesn’t mean you are the “first” to do so nor will you be the “last”.
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/889
Had the Greeks’ knowledge somehow survived and been transmitted across the centuries, to inspire al-Biruni? Or had it withered away and disappeared, leaving Islamic scholars with the task of rediscovering what had been known a thousand years before?
July 20th, 2007 15:00
Who copied WHOM?
Ed: There are no prepositions involved - ‘Who copied who?’ is correct.
July 20th, 2007 19:45
Multiple desktops is a good example.
Linux has had this for around 12 years and it’s now a highly refined productive and essential part of the Linux desktop. Apple, being smart enough to recognise a good idea has now taken this idea and made ‘Spaces’.
July 20th, 2007 21:20
Not that it’s relevant to the point of the article, but “whom” is correct. It is not only the use of a preposition which requires the objective case of the pronoun. Transitive verbs also dictate the use of the objective case. So “whom” is correct not because it is the object of a preposition, but becuause it is the object of the verb “copy.” For example, would “me copied he” be considered grammatically correct? Obviously not, but the construction of both sentences is the same. Thus {I, we, you, he, she, it, who} copied {me, us, you, him, her, it, whom}
July 20th, 2007 21:27
What a lot of people don’t get either is, even if they were copying a look or style they are doing it so people can have access to a great looking desktop that can emulate a proprietary one for FREE. I just don’t understand the sarcastic comments about something that people can have and use for free.
July 20th, 2007 22:05
this arguement isnt fair, the dev’s who made this dock bar only merged a plugin that someone had made. Linux is about choice, so if someone wants to use a relfective glass effect, they can?
Ed:You make a good point, so I’ve approved but removed the caps.
July 20th, 2007 23:43
Actually Ed, the second who/whom is in the oblique, Matt is right. Though it’s one of those things that’s going away because no one gets it “right” anymore. “Whom” is dying, so I wouldn’t worry too hard.
In case you’re interested, there’s an easy test: replace any who/whom with he/him. “He” = “Who,” “Him” = “Whom.”
“He copied him?”
“Who copied him?”
“He copied whom?”
“Who copied whom?”
July 21st, 2007 04:47
Lest we forgot that both MS and Apple stole the mouse and gui from PARC. Thanks Xerox!!!
July 21st, 2007 04:58
In this usage, “copied” is a transitive verb. It requires an object. To decide whether to use “who” or “whom,” substitute “he” and “him,” respectively.
July 21st, 2007 05:21
Lack of prepositions doesn’t negate the need for the dative case.
July 21st, 2007 07:45
It’s wrong even to say that Mac, Windows, and Linux copy from “each other”. Most of the ideas and effects you seen in today’s UIs are decades old and were developed by research groups that had nothing to do with either Apple or Microsoft, or even Linux development.
Apple and Microsoft know the literature and they go to the conferences where these ideas are presented. Or they simply hire students or researchers familiar with the original techniques.
That’s the way it should be: academia and research labs should be developing these ideas. It would just be nice if companies gave some credit to where the ideas came from. And it would be nice if Apple in particular stopped being such scrooges and actually started supporting research. Right now, Apple just takes, takes, takes, and gives hardly anything back to the community.
July 21st, 2007 23:27
I’ve translated your post to korean.
this is great post
http://blog.xeph.kr/2007/07/21/who-copied-who/
July 21st, 2007 23:31
Parallel thinking, one other example. A colleague here in the UK discovered he could use a plotter to print PCB masks directly on to a blank board using Staedtler pens in the plotter, then etch a perfect pattern. Three months later I read a posting to a newsgroup where someone Stateside had discovered the same technique. I was quite amazed at the pure coincidence, he mentioned it only to me and I didn’t mention it to anyone else. Needless to say, he thought it remarkable.
July 21st, 2007 23:52
[…] Avant Window Navigator - Who copied who? […]
July 22nd, 2007 19:14
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July 23rd, 2007 10:42
This is exactly what I expected to find out after reading the title Who copied who?. Thanks for informative article
July 26th, 2007 07:39
Copying designs is from all times. Look at the car industry…
July 30th, 2007 18:15
> Who copied WHOM?
>Ed: There are no prepositions involved - ‘Who copied who?’ is correct.
Ed, I’m afraid you’re wrong. “Whom” is correct for indirect objects (with prepositions) AND direct objects (without).
July 31st, 2007 02:03
Who copied who?…
[…]After Avant Window Navigator recently added a depth effect, the popular Linux desktop application received a rather large amount of flak for using the same 3D effect as Apple?s upcoming release of OS X. But things aren?t always what they seem, and…
August 20th, 2007 07:19
[quote=”Ed”]Who copied WHOM?
Ed: There are no prepositions involved - ‘Who copied who?’ is correct.[/quote]
No, it’s really not. The form ‘who’ is for when the pronoun is the subject, and ‘whom’ for when the pronoun is an object. One common reason to need the objective case (whom) is that there is a preposition (to whom), but this is not the only reason. ‘To copy’ is a transitive verb; it takes a direct object. Would you write “They copied he”? You might, but the correct form is “They copied him”, just as the correct form sentence is “Who copied whom.”
Also, this sentence is pretty awful: Dilbert creator Scott Adams (whose a pretty sharp guy) created…
You want “who’s” the contraction of “who is” not “whose” which means “of or belonging to whom.”
August 23rd, 2007 08:43
Great article, one that mirrors my own thoughts… Are you copying my thoughts? doh guess I should have (c) my thoughts.
I really find the whole thing silly anyway, there are lots of parallel thinking analogies as well as lots of improved upon version analogies. I use Linux because I enjoy it and it works for me. I also note that none of the distro’s that I have tried use all these u.i. improvements as part of their stock desktops, in general the stock u.i.s are pretty vanilla… even win95esque in my opinion.
These new docks are mods and add ons done by end users who want something different or crave eye candy, so not sure how it becomes an industry wide accusation anyway.
Fortunately these sorts of intellectual property rights situations did not arise too early in our technological history or we may have been stuck with automobiles of various designs simply because an automobile with 4 wheels had already been patented and therefor all other automobiles must have some other configuration of wheels in order to be allowed to exist.